The Irish Family: Then and Now. Part 1 of 4

 

One of the major men’s rights issues in Ireland is father’s rights – in particular the anomalous position – legally speaking – of what we call here “unmarried father’s” or men who do not happen to be married to the mother of their child or children when that child/children is/are born. Though I personally have noticed that over the last 5 – 6 years the phrase “single father” is replacing “unmarried father” in discussions or debates about this issue. I will address the legal aspects in a separate article.

Mostly because “unmarried father” carries and carried some baggage – of a feckless, irresponsible man who “had his fun and buggered off” this was part of the reason why women who had babies without being married or had any intention of getting married were up until circa 1989 referred to as “unmarried mothers” – NOT a term of approval, a phrase that carried its own baggage. I have personal experience of this – I was an “unmarried mother” in 1983 – a story for another time.

For both – and how these individuals were labelled – those labels carried with them layers of meaning – infused with the cultural and historical and religious baggage that Ireland as a society still to some extent carries – all of it under the brooding and betimes malevolent eye of the prevailing dominant “ethos” or “doctrine” that informed every aspect, every facet of our lives – up to and including at government level – the Catholic Church, and how that church operated IN Ireland.

No matter what you talk about in the context of Ireland, in relation to our social, cultural and political history and the seeds of where we are now – you will run slap bang up against the church – because up until relatively recent times, in historical terms, Ireland wasn’t just Ireland – Ireland was “Holy Catholic Ireland

So, having said that – let’s put the issue of fathers rights into context in the present day.

First of all we need to talk about the issue of divorce [1] – because there are two overlapping paradigms that contributed to the creation of the mess we have now in Ireland with regard to how “single fathers” are viewed.

Up until 1996 divorce was prohibited in Ireland – it was in our Constitution – there was a Constitutional ban on divorce. The ONLY way that divorce legislation could have been introduced in Ireland was to have a referendum – and that’s what we did – TWICE – because the first divorce referendum [2] in 1986 was defeated by a substantial margin.

63.48% against to 36.52% for the introduction of divorce legislation in Ireland, the voter turnout for this referendum was – 2,436,836, this represent 60.84% (almost two thirds of those eligible to vote)

I was a witness to not just the events leading up to both referendums, but to how both the pro divorce and anti divorce campaigns were run – nasty – very nasty – every religious freak in this country came out of the woodwork – and in the case of the first defeated referendum – was taken aback at how many of them there were.

What I want you to note is the year – 1996 – for many other western states – this is and was bizarre – 1996 – and divorce was verboten in this country – and the first attempt to change that was vigorously and vehemently resisted.

Ireland’s “conservatives” and at its core, the Irish populace up until the late 1990’s was and to some extent still is very conservative – in fact Irish conservatives make any other countries “conservatives” look positively “lefty”

That second referendum which took almost ten more years to be run – the amendment to allow the introduction of divorce IN Ireland was passed by a tiny margin – it was literally passed by the skin of its teeth.

50.28% for and 49.72% against the introduction of divorce IN Ireland (a margin of .56%) – the numbers of people who voted increased – 2,628,834, 62.15%

BOTH those referenda reflect the cultural and social attitudes prevalent IN Ireland between the years 1986 – 1996 of half and more of the population. Both men and women.

The difference, the rate if you will at which people in Ireland “change their minds” is reflected in, by how little the numbers of those totally opposed to divorce IN Ireland changed. 63.48% AGAINST in 1986, and 49.72% AGAINST in 1996 – a difference of 13.79% – not even one fifth had “changed their minds”.

In Ireland family is everything – in Ireland family doesn’t just mean your mother and father – your brothers and sisters – it means EVERYBODY you are related to by blood or marriage. The core unit of our society – and upon which this State was founded on is “The Family” it is in our Constitution – it’s still there, and no-one is agitating to have that changed – or calling for a referendum to amend this – well not many – there are campaigns to get certain sections of the Constitution amended.

So, when it comes to discussing the context in which the issues of fathers rights is viewed and embedded in, IN Ireland – the first thing you have to take into account is the cultural, social, political and RELIGIOUS forces at play here in not just the recent past but even to some extent the present.

The first thing to note is that “unmarried mother[3] was a term of abuse and approbation – and how by association, was the term “unmarried father” – when this began to change – gradually – as “unmarried mothers” morphed into “one parent” and then “lone parent” fathers were gradually excised out of the picture and became the bad guys – how under the influence of a combination of forces – with feminism being just one of them – an about face was done – to recast these women as “vulnerable” and no – it didn’t happen overnight – and yes – hard though this might be to believe in the wider Irish public – not everyone either accepts or believes or ascribes to the notion – that “lone parents” are brave vulnerable souls struggling to “do their best” in fact our current Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has and is introducing a programme of cuts of blanket, life-long support for these “vulnerable brave souls” that is undoing that for a short period of time – historically speaking, was the paradigm that INFLUENCED GOVERNMENT POLICY – is coming to an end.

“In 1973, after much hard lobbying work, Cherish celebrated the introduction of the unmarried mother’s allowance – the first social welfare payment to acknowledge the existence of women bringing up children on their own. It was £8.50 per week.

In 1987, after many years of campaigning, the Status of Children Act finally abolished the status of illegitimacy.”

“When developing our Strategic Plan for 2004–06, it became clear that society was very different and that one-parent families now existed in many forms in Ireland. In recognition of these changes, we extended our services to all members of all one-parent families and renamed ourselves One Family.”

And yes – all along fathers have, and had been painted out of the picture – deliberately – and with great precision – but having said that – in order to understand the mechanics of how this came to be – you have to incorporate all elements, and take into account all the cultural, social and political changes that have happened IN Ireland over the last 20 years or so – feminism isn’t even close to being the major one – feminism IN Ireland is a horse of a different colour – feminism IN Ireland has up until very recently keep a relatively low profile in favour of presenting itself as “women’s rights”

Two things have impacted on the rising levels of both “single mothers” and “single fathers” – the introduction of the “unmarried mothers allowance in 1973” and the introduction of divorce in 1996, with both these sets of circumstances heavily influenced by the prevailing social and cultural norms and attitudes. Right up to 1996.

And caught in the middle? Children.

Now, factor in the impact of the revelations starting to emerge about the ongoing, and in the minds of vast numbers of Irish people, State sanctioned abuse of hundreds if not thousands of children at the hands of those purveyors of all that was right and proper IN Ireland – and the vast majority of Irish people would have absolutely agreed with that, IN “Holy Catholic Ireland” – it was devastating – to some extent we are still reeling from the scars of those revelations – and the circumstances around which these issues were dealt with. This influence – until these revelations started to emerge informed Irish attitudes to “unmarried mothers” and acted as a form of lever to “keep the number down”

A complex interconnected mesh of factors.

Factor in as well the ongoing and almost permanent state of economic crisis that this country has lived with since its foundation – except for a very brief period [4] – from about the mid 1990’s till the 28th September 2009. About 14/15 years – and then it all came crashing down – again.

During the period between 2009 and now – there has been some discussion about once more becoming “part of the UK” and no-one batted an eyelid – no-one completely lost the plot and went on a big ole rant about….you know what – THAT’S how bad it was and still is. Despite all the spin, [5] all the PR. It’s bad. Though I do have to say this – Irish people are resilient – do actually try to struggle through the various crisis that hit us – one after the other – our economy may be in the shithole – we have had most, if all our illusions ripped away from us – but – we get through them.

Relax any UK readers – there are no plans at government level to give this serious thought – apparently our current government “has it all under control” because of course they have always been just brilliant at “running this country”

Did people separate in Ireland before the introduction of divorce? Of course they did, and it was a shameful thing – culturally and socially – and in relative terms – not in huge numbers – did women have what were called “illegitimate” babies – absolutely – and they were treated in some instances quite harshly – very harshly – though it has to be said – that if those women committed infanticide – which quite a large number of them did – they were rarely either charged with that murder, or sent to prison – but were sent to the innumerable “institutions” set up to deal with these wayward women. I wrote about this in a post called “The Patriarchy Made Me Do It

Looking back over it, I realise I failed to make a point – the experiences of some of these women has been used by feminists to further THEIR agenda – but – for some of those women – those experiences were harsh. To deny this as a historical reality is to play word games – to play ideological word games. An amazingly brave woman who was one of the first to speak about her experience in one of these places in 1992 was– Christine Buckley [6]– Rest in Peace Christine, and thank you.

Let us now talk about the issue of fathers rights, IN Ireland – bearing in mind that all of the above is the back-story – the context – let’s talk about the nuts and bolts before we talk about what the underlying problems are – how fathers are treated in Court – how fathers have been gradually over a period of some 20 years or so – gone from being “the head of the family” and a person of respect and social and familial importance – to a pariah – in some circumstances – some very specific circumstances – as either the “unmarried father” of a child or children or as the – discarded and surplus to requirements, and in some cases, barely tolerated visitor in his child or children’s lives.

Let’s look at the numbers – the statistics – keeping in mind the cultural and social context in which those numbers and statistics must be evaluated, and the pertinent legislative changes that mark the institutional changes that caused shifts in perception, in attitude and in the cultural landscape, in particular among certain types Irish women – the vast number of whom wouldn’t know what feminism is or isn’t if it jumped up and bit them on their arses – and neither care nor have any interest in feminism – what they will bleat about is “women’s rights”.

Feminism IN Ireland is predominantly the provenance of middle class, middle aged privileged women who pontificate about “the patriarchy” and all the usual rubbish of feminism from their university and college lecterns – or in some cases – those who have “gone into politics” on TV shows, whining about “gender quotas” it is worth noting here that again up until recently – the 1990’s the vast majority of people who “went to college” were middle class and privileged – and completely out of touch with the lived experiences of the majority of Irish people.

The number of private households [7] in Ireland – and private household in this context mostly means families – increased in Ireland in three distinct phases. With the last phase being where “single mothers” became “acceptable”

Between the periods

1926 – 1966 – a period of 40 years, the average number of families in Ireland was – 659,280 – the increase of families in total over those 40 years was 64,626.

An average increase per year of 12,925.2

1979 – 1986 – a period of 7 years, the average number of families in Ireland was – 909,321 – between the census periods of 1966 – 1979 (13 years) the number increased by 179,722.

1991 – 2011 – a period of 20 years. The average number of families in Ireland was – 1,305,204 – with a quite significant increase between 2006 – 2011 – of 187,112

Single parent households in Ireland in 1996 were broken down thus. [8]

In 1996, (18 years ago)there were, 3,339 lone fathers, of which 282 were “single” 679 were “married” 661 were “separated” and 1,717 were “widowed”

In the same year, there were 16,762 lone mothers, of which 3,085 were “single, 4,411 were “separated” 7,319 were “widowed” so the total number of lone mothers, whether “single” or “separated” was 7,496 – out of a total number of all households of 1,123,238 – the greatest numbers of households were Husband and wife” (or couple) – 152,477, husband and wife or couple with children – 440,414.

So, 4,157 more “lone mothers” than “lone fathers”

The Perinatal Statistics Report 2012 [9] from ESRI has some interesting demographic information in it.

For the Census in 2006 these are the figures. [10]

There were 394,948 husband and wife (or couple) with children – and 21,689 lone fathers, there were 130,853 lone mothers.

In the space of 10 years, after the divorce referendum, and 34 years after the introduction of the “unmarried mothers allowance” the number of “lone mothers” jumped from 7,496 to 130,853 – during the period from 1996 to 2006. Between 1972 and 1996, it didn’t really increase by much – it took the best part of 34 years for single motherhood to become really socially “acceptable” – starting in and around 1996 – 24 years. Just as the Celtic Tiger was starting to roar and the EU was forging its “closer and closer links”

These are the raw demographics – and naturally don’t mean anything till you put them into context – the big social,. Cultural and political jumps came in the context of two things – when Ireland joined the EU in 1972, and when the Celtic Tiger began to roar.

These were rather abrupt social, cultural and most significantly political changes that Ireland experienced, even though we found ourselves suddenly “part of Europe” in 1972, it was as the “poor man of Europe” and we knew it – structurally and to a large extent improved things– on a deeper and more cultural level – things didn’t change all that much – as you saw with the divorce referenda example.

There has always been a bit of scepticism in Ireland re the EU or the EEC as it was called when we joined – being “European” wasn’t something we as a culture or a Nation ever really embraced.

The big changes came between circa 1992 – 2006 – that’s we started for want of a better phrase really “joining the world” – embracing globalisation and all that this brings – it was a slow journey – and to some extent we resisted every step of the way – Lisbon Treaty anyone?

The final thing to note in the context of Ireland and how “feminism” took actually quite a long time to take root IN Ireland and why as feminism started its inexorable journey to become the default paradigm of most western countries – in particular the US, the UK and Canada and Australia is this – there was no “swinging sixties” IN Ireland – no great social upheaval that threw all constraints on behaviour and free speech off – it was to be blunt – just more misery – more crisis – more struggling to get from day to another for most Irish people – I was born in 1961 – so grew up around the time that the sixties were segueing into the 1970’s – my mother was born in 1932 and described this period of time as “miserable” except for thing – the music.

To all intents and purposes “feminism” is a fad in Ireland – or was until relatively recently – “women’s rights” were what exercised the minds of those with an interest in this area – even now in spite of the latest offerings from the likes of Una Mullally wittering on in the Irish Times about whatever her latest drivel is – “feminism” began to influence public policy IN Ireland via the EU – and with a focused effort from about that period between circa 1992 – 2006 – in some areas – like fathers rights and domestic violence slightly earlier – around the mid 1980’s and early 1990’s – “feminism” to a certain extent operated below the radar IN Ireland – real feminism – of the kind that those in the US, UK, Canada and Australia experience didn’t start to impact IN Ireland till around the early 00’s – yes indeed – the effects of feminism’s toxic doctrine had been manifesting itself in the areas of fathers rights and domestic violence for a fair bit longer than that – but up until then feminism has had to tread a very careful path IN Ireland because of deeply embedded historical, cultural and social factors – one of which is that within Ireland – family is still seen as the core unit of society – single motherhood while for a brief time was peddled as “poor vulnerable brave souls struggling courageously” and given grudging acceptance is no longer quite the case – to be blunt – it never really “caught on”

Yes – certain types of Irish women – in particular – and no make no apology for this – single mothers embraced with alacrity this image of themselves as “brave souls” but not because they were “feminists” or all that bothered about feminism – but because social, cultural and political forces conspired together – with a subtle but effective influence from feminism emanating from the EU.

Were fathers – single fathers ignored and marginalised and painted out of the picture? Yes they were – did a framework through which those “working with single parent families” emerge which endorsed this “brave and vulnerable souls” paradigm – yes – it did.

But it was already starting to be recognised as false by for example The Family Support Agency [11] and Kieron McKeown [12] and [13] – right now – IN Ireland – and PEF (Platform for European Fathers) [14] in the EU – we are to all intents and purposes living by the grace and favour of the EU – they have us – and excuse the expression – by the balls.

Right now feminism a la “The Swedish Model” infests the EU – is corrupting the EU and making some of the most outrageous demands for assaults on the Human Rights of men and boys IN Europe – and of all the countries in the EU most vulnerable to being browbeaten into compliance by this, in my opinion, toxic and corrupt entity – it is Ireland.

THAT where Irish men’s Human Rights Activists need to focus their attention on – no offence to any US or Canadian MHRA’s but nothing that happens in those States has the power to impact on public or government policy IN Ireland, with the immediacy and to the detriment of Men’s Human Rights IN Ireland as the EU does.

If there is any place where we would “take our cue” from in relation to implementing biased and corrupt policies it is the UK.

 

With Regard to how to address Fathers’ rights issues in Ireland.

It is my opinion, and naturally open to criticism, that the issue of fathers’ rights IN Ireland needs to be addressed from the perspective that children NEED both parents, that it is CHILDRENS rights that are being abused – that addressing this issue from either the perspective of “mothers’ rights” or even “fathers rights” is and can be counterproductive. to harness that deeply embedded cultural and social alliegance to the concept of “family”

Yes – I personally know what it feels like to be alienated from one’s children – and the pain that this can cause – and this terrible emotional and psychological burden is placed mostly on men – on fathers – good decent men – that they are usually the target of this reprehensible campaign of hatred and vileness.

But without diminishing or disregarding this – children are also victims – children are handed a toxic and malign message that reaches into their very core – that one half of what contributed to who they are – where they came from – and what makes them who they are – is vile, is evil, is something nasty and horrible – what people do who launch campaigns of Parental Alienation do, is tell their children that half of you comes from something bad. Not in so many words – though this happens – but subtly, subliminally, and deviously.

That clinging to concepts like “custody” like “access” or “contact” or “child support/maintenance” does is send out another subliminal message to CHILDREN.

One parent owns you – one parent is more important that the other – one parent can’t be trusted to be your parent – one parent is so bad that they have to be regulated, restricted, supervised or ”kept on eye on”

Part of who are, what makes you who you are is yet again something to be feared, something that while it might have been good for you before – now in some cases almost overnight – ISN’T.

If there is one “concept” that I loathe with a passion in relation to this issue it is the “best interests of the child” doctrine – and how this has been first corrupted by false and distorted paradigms, and yes heavily influenced by feminism at an INSTITUTIONAL level – and then applied by those institutional bodies – ALL of them – without for minute actually considering WHAT is in the “best interests of the child”

Because the debate, the discussion, the narrative has become focused on “mothers rights” and “fathers rights”

Is this because I believe that father’s rights are irrelevant? Absolutely not – the right of a parent to be a parent to his/her child is without doubt a central and important issue – but the rights of CHILDREN to be parented by BOTH their parents is also a central and important issue that needs equal attention.

In relation to the tendency of either feminists or well-meaning but completely misinformed and ignorant do-gooders – this almost default “add on” to the “oh I agree that children need both parents………………..except in the case where there are issues of abuse or violence”

Would you all for all love of God open your bloody eyes and get this message into your heads when you peddle this shit – with the underlying implication that both abuse and violence emanates from men and only men.

Women are just as likely, if not more likely to BE abusive, to BE violent – and you are all turning a blind eye to this – to sanctimoniously peddling this shit is to be complicit in actually HARMING those children you are again sanctimoniously and self righteously claiming to be “trying to protect”

To continue to do this in order to protect an ideology, a toxic vile and malign ideology, or to cling to an allegiance to a set of beliefs that allows you to maintain your stance of believing that all men are bastards, all men are inherently violent and all men are abusive is giving permission, is endorsing, is ENCOURAGING violent abusive and frankly disgusting examples of “womanhood” to abuse children.

Even those who accept these toxic paradigms WITHOUT question – without doing their bloody homework in a well-meaning but ignorant belief that they are doing it in “the best interests of children” who may not even be feminists but blindly accept that the shit peddled by feminism must be correct, because “feminism is all about equality” – it isn’t.

Feminist doctrine HARMS children.

I will make no apology for this – those of you who do this – HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. ALL of you.

There are people in Ireland trying to address these issues – and we should support them and give them our backing – acknowledge the good they are trying to do – and join with them in that work.

Yes – some of their “ideas” are a bit off target – and some of them don’t quite get the full picture – but is it not better to work WITH them and towards getting that full picture into focus than taking a “them and us” stance” if they’re not “in the movement” then they’re “against us” I’m sorry – but no – I personally cannot support that point of view, and to be clear, there is no way in hell I would support ANY agency or body or organisation that has an intransigent feminist agenda – no way.

Personally I would rather work as well to kick out the feminists, kick out the feminist agenda and refocus those agenda towards one of Human Rights – as working towards addressing issues of Human Rights abuses.

 

References

[1] Divorce in Ireland 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

[2] Divorce in Ireland 1986

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill,_1986_(Ireland)

[3] Unmarried mothers in Ireland; http://www.onefamily.ie/about-us/our-history/

[4] Celtic Tiger in Ireland; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger

[5] Celtic Tiger Starts to Stir:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-celtic-tiger-starts-to-stir-is-irelands-economy-really-back-on-the-economic-track-8877567.html

[6] Christine Buckley;

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/warrior-survivor-advocate-charmer-christine-buckley-was-a-hero-among-heroes-261631.html

[7] Private Households in Ireland;

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CNA29.asp&TableName=Private+Households+by+size&StatisticalProduct=DB_CN

[8] Household composition by marital status 1996

http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=103389

[9] Perinatal Statistics Report 2012: http://www.west-info.eu/files/SUSTAT48.pdf

[10] 2006 Census Household Composition.

http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=76414

[11] http://repository.wit.ie/676/1/foreword.pdf

[12] http://www.amen.ie/Downloads/26017.pdf

[13] http://www.dcya.gov.ie/documents/publications/Fathers_and_Families_-_Research_and_Reflection_on_Key_Questions.pdf

[14] http://europeanfathers.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

 

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9 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Alan Bowker
    May 02, 2014 @ 17:41:37

    Anja,
    Read with interest – and thanks for educating me once more.
    A couple of comments:
    Is this an inherently Irish thing where a referendum is offered readily (within 10 years of a previous one where, in UK, we cannot get another referendum on EU membership despite the enormous changes in terms and over 40 years or so) and repeatedly until the “correct” response is received?
    eg EU Membership / Divorce Legislation
    Or, since the referendum is granted so easily and regularly, especially with such a close call on both previous ones, then is there any reason why another is not granted other than they have the “correct” decision so no referendum required? Ever.
    Secondly, and certainly in UK, if not also globally, abuse of children by their own mother is TWICE as likely than by the child’s natural father.
    When a male is the abuser it tends to be a boyfriend/partner/stepfather but not a husband.
    When a female is the abuser it tends to be the natural mother.
    I’ve recently seen confirmation that (in UK) that in 80% plus of child abuse in UK, the child has been abused by a female alone (usually the natural mother) or together with another male (very unlikely the natural father).
    This brings us to the conclusion that THE most dangerous place for a Western child to be is under the “protection” of his/her natural mother whilst his/her natural father is not present to provide the real protection.
    And this is why I cannot understand why any Men’s Rights activity does not focus primarily on this issue.
    Women are meant to be the carers, the nurturers, the protectors BUT THEY ARE NOT.
    That is not a comfortable place for feminists to be. That is a killing ground for them. It is MEN who are protecting the children from women and the social services, police, legal systems which are entirely complicit in child abuse.
    A child is, I believe, 8x safer with a single father than a single mother … yet the courts grant the mother custody in almost every case – putting the child right into far greater potential harm from child abuse.
    And even taking the children out of the equation, isn’t it true that feminists “use” the term “children” to receive funds, support their mythical cases for their lies and falsehoods peddled at the expense of men?
    Fighting for Children’s Rights (via Fathers or Mens Rights) is a far more powerful message than fighting solely for disadvantaged men.
    MEN ARE THE CHILDREN’S PROTECTORS ought to be the message – and we have all the facts, surveys and professional support to drive that message home.
    .

    Reply

    • anjaeriud
      May 02, 2014 @ 21:05:31

      Anja,
      Read with interest – and thanks for educating me once more.

      A couple of comments:

      Is this an inherently Irish thing where a referendum is offered readily (within 10 years of a previous one where, in UK, we cannot get another referendum on EU membership despite the enormous changes in terms and over 40 years or so) and repeatedly until the “correct” response is received?
      eg EU Membership / Divorce Legislation

      No, not at all – we have had two extremely divisive referenda on two issues – both times there have been two referenda – in 1983 and 1992 – on abortion – and the two divorce referenda, in 1986 and 1996.

      With regard to the abortion one’s I was pregnant during both – and on both occasions found myself on the wrong end of a mob of fanatics – oddly enough both times that mob was made up of anti-abortion people. For the second one Nov 1992, to the day I die I will be grateful to a young Garda (police officer) whose name I never got, who rescued me, from these lunatics. He was almost as scared as I was – but bless him.

      Having said that – while the abortion referenda literally divided this country in half – the space between each one was a period of wound licking and brooding – those years (9) between the two abortion referenda saw a waiting game being played out – until what became known as the X case happened in 1992.

      A young girl (14) was prevented from leaving this country after being raped in order to obtain an abortion in the UK.

      It precipitated the second referendum and gave new life to the pro- choice side. But that referendaum addressed three issues rather than abortion directly –

      1. Exclusion of suicide
      2. The Right to Travel (leave The State) for any purpose.
      3. Right to information – from outside The State.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

      The Supreme Court had ruled that this girl’s Constitutional Rights were and had been infringed by detaining her in The State on the basis of what she was going to do – in another State – where that act was lawful. There was also another component to the decision which caused more outrage – with constant agitation by both pro – choice and anti abortion campaigners, that finally reached its zenith in 2012 and with the death of Savita Halapannavar.

      It was the Supreme Courts’ ruling on this – on appeal from The High Court.

      March 1992: The appeal was heard at the Supreme Court and on the final day the judge ruled that the decision of the High Court should be set aside.

      She was permitted to travel for an abortion but it is understood that she suffered a miscarriage at a hospital in England following the hearing.

      Despite that ruling, which allowed for the threat of suicide as a grounds for abortion, legislation on the matter has still not been brought forward.

      http://www.thejournal.ie/twenty-years-on-a-timeline-of-the-x-case-347359-Feb2012/

      http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/savitas-death-is-not-about-abortion-it-is-about-medical-negligence-247993.html

      And the church’s position on after Savita Halapannavar died.

      http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2012/11/15/the-tragic-death-of-savita-halappanavar-should-not-be-exploited-to-sweep-away-irish-abortion-law-under-which-she-could-legally-have-been-saved/

      As you can see, this issue has exercised the minds of Irish people for over 30 years – in the end it was the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the text of the first referenda that – 23 years later saw the introduction of legal abortion in Ireland.

      http://rt.com/news/ireland-abortion-law-force-060/

      http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2013/en.act.2013.0035.pdf

      To say that referenda are undertaken lightly in Ireland would be incorrect – part of the simmering rage on both sides of this issue was fuelled by the government’s reluctance to revisit the issue – referenda in Ireland almost always divide the country into two camps – with both sides, invariably becoming more and more hostile and belligerent.

      The two divorce referenda were no different – not quite as divisive – but close – very close.

      Or, since the referendum is granted so easily and regularly, especially with such a close call on both previous ones, then is there any reason why another is not granted other than they have the “correct” decision so no referendum required? Ever.

      Referenda are actually not granted easily here – except for the ones that we have been obliged to have as a result of our membership of the EU – the battle to hold referenda is long, belligerent and hard fought.

      Each EU referenda regarding the EU up to the Lisbon Treaty one have to a certain extent inculcated more and more resentment AT the EU – there was a growing anger at how we were “being told how to run our country”

      As it turned out we were running our country into the ground – but that knowledge came later.

      The Lisbon Treaty Referendum (s) in 2008 and 2009, was the turning point – to all intents and purposes the “people of Ireland” told the EU to fuck off – then we got – our marching orders – another divisive battle began.

      And the rest as they say – is history – now we are literally up shit creek without a paddle – and our “saviours”? the bloody EU – in some sections of Ireland you’d be hard put to figure out who is hated the most – Bankers (spelt with a capital “W”), the Church, politicians, Developers, the EU, our governments of the last 90 years, ourselves, the EU – we have more problems, and more issues than you could shake a stick at – all grounded in our history, our “unique” if somewhat bizarre cultural, social and political history.

      Secondly, and certainly in UK, if not also globally, abuse of children by their own mother is TWICE as likely than by the child’s natural father.

      Again, I agree, and this is an issue that, in my opinion should be reframed to reflect a Child Protection perspective – and reemphasised over and over again – that the primary victims of feminism influence on the issues of parenting, and related issues is and are CHILDREN.

      When a male is the abuser it tends to be a boyfriend/partner/stepfather but not a husband.

      When a female is the abuser it tends to be the natural mother.

      No argument from me on that Alan. I would add though that toxic women invariably attract and CHOOSE toxic men.

      I’ve recently seen confirmation that (in UK) that in 80% plus of child abuse in UK, the child has been abused by a female alone (usually the natural mother) or together with another male (very unlikely the natural father).

      Would like to see that study or research Alan.

      This brings us to the conclusion that THE most dangerous place for a Western child to be is under the “protection” of his/her natural mother whilst his/her natural father is not present to provide the real protection.

      Agree, again.

      And this is why I cannot understand why any Men’s Rights activity does not focus primarily on this issue.

      Me neither.

      Women are meant to be the carers, the nurturers, the protectors BUT THEY ARE NOT.

      It is The Myth of Womanhood ™ that has been peddled for centuries. It is toxic gynocentrism and hypergamy wrapped up by “women’s libbers” following a cultural marxist agenda that morphed into feminism.

      That is not a comfortable place for feminists to be. That is a killing ground for them. It is MEN who are protecting the children from women and the social services, police, legal systems which are entirely complicit in child abuse.

      Well I believe that not only must we make feminists even more uncomfortable, but those idiots and enablers who facilitate and endorse feminism – without understanding one single about it. In Ireland though, the issue of sexual abuse of children has an added dimension.

      A child is, I believe, 8x safer with a single father than a single mother … yet the courts grant the mother custody in almost every case – putting the child right into far greater potential harm from child abuse.
      And even taking the children out of the equation, isn’t it true that feminists “use” the term “children” to receive funds, support their mythical cases for their lies and falsehoods peddled at the expense of men?

      Fighting for Children’s Rights (via Fathers or Mens Rights) is a far more powerful message than fighting solely for disadvantaged men.

      I would concur that a child is better off in some cases with a father, with very few exceptions than with a single mother – and again the emphasis should be on highlighting what happens to children when left with truly toxic females.

      Feminists will use anything to “receive funds” any lie, any myth, any false or distorted data. Again we are in agreement – the focus should be in relation to parental issues – on CHILDREN.

      MEN ARE THE CHILDREN’S PROTECTORS ought to be the message – and we have all the facts, surveys and professional support to drive that message home.

      AGREE totally.

      With regard to MHRA/MRA’s and the whole “label thing” in particular criticising them – I have something to say about that – if your issue – the issue that is propelling your agenda is “fathers rights” and you peddle that agenda by spewing out nothing but hate and bile and invective – and constantly refer to women as “scumbags” etc then claim to be a better MHRA/MRA than someone else – I have a question.

      What kind of example is that for the child/children you “claim” to be advocating on behalf of? What kind of image, of message are you sending to that child/children?

      You’re just a hate-filled arsehole spewing vile invective out of rage – you’re NOT advocating for Human Rights, you’re NOT advocating for fathers’ rights – you’re on a vendetta – a journey of revenge.

      Some women are arseholes, most feminists are twats, lots of them are completely insane – but some men are arseholes as well and some of them are so-called MHRA/MRA’s are arseholes – it isn’t about the label – it is about the issue – and in relation to this issue – it’s about CHILDRENS Rights.

      Reply

      • Alan Bowker
        May 02, 2014 @ 22:26:04

        Thanks for that considered response, Anja.
        I think I understand most but need to read through the links to piece some of the missing items.
        Also, I’ll try to identify the survey/data that I referred to and you would like to see ie. ” I’ve recently seen confirmation that (in UK) that in 80% plus of child abuse in UK, the child has been abused by a female alone (usually the natural mother) or together with another male (very unlikely the natural father).
        Would like to see that study or research Alan “.
        My own interests are not primarily in “Father’s Rights” but rather in DV/Child Abuse and only because my own experiences and understandings relate more to these than elsewhere.
        Having two adult children I found out that one was abused when he was young yet I was unaware of that abuse until a few years ago.
        The psychological issues of the abuse have been immense and well documented, the evidence is apparent yet what you see is a frustration that the criminal justice system appear to refuse to address that issue – whether in my son(s) and I personal case or, as I believe there is ample evidence of, in the general sense.
        This is a feminist issue and one that gives past and future abusers the ability to abuse at will without fear of prosecution.
        Thanks again .
        I’ll go try and search out that data now 🙂

      • anjaeriud
        May 02, 2014 @ 22:55:44

        Thanks for that considered response, Anja.

        The issues you raised deserved a thorough response, in particular child sexual abuse and the protecting of female abusers. At the expense of the well-being and safety of children.

        I think I understand most but need to read through the links to piece some of the missing items.

        Take your time. took me ages to read some of them.

        Also, I’ll try to identify the survey/data that I referred to and you would like to see ie. ” I’ve recently seen confirmation that (in UK) that in 80% plus of child abuse in UK, the child has been abused by a female alone (usually the natural mother) or together with another male (very unlikely the natural father).
        Would like to see that study or research Alan “.

        Excellent – would like to draw together all the current unbiased research and address this issue in more detail, would welcome your contributions.

        My own interests are not primarily in “Father’s Rights” but rather in DV/Child Abuse and only because my own experiences and understandings relate more to these than elsewhere.

        We each do what we are most passionate about and feel is the area that we have something of substance and worth and value to add to. Every area needs its advocates – needs its committed and focused individuals.

        Having two adult children I found out that one was abused when he was young yet I was unaware of that abuse until a few years ago.

        I am so sorry to hear that Alan – both for your son and for you for the pain this must cause.

        The psychological issues of the abuse have been immense and well documented, the evidence is apparent yet what you see is a frustration that the criminal justice system appear to refuse to address that issue – whether in my son(s) and I personal case or, as I believe there is ample evidence of, in the general sense.

        To have to deal with the reality of this abuse and then have it compounded by an egregious miscarriage of justice being perpetrated must be beyond difficult – the fact that you are not prepared to just walk away and let these bastards win is a testament to your courage and strength.

        This is a feminist issue and one that gives past and future abusers the ability to abuse at will without fear of prosecution.

        It is – and if it is ok with you I will email you privately on this if that is ok with you?

        Thanks again .
        I’ll go try and search out that data now

        Thank you Alan – Anne 🙂

      • Alan Bowker
        May 02, 2014 @ 22:42:40

        NSPCC: All I have is this comment from a recent article.
        Here is the text from the salient section: It was over 90%, not over 80% as I had previously thought.
        ” Regarding the obsession with Domestic Violence (DV) on behalf of the Agenda of the feminist lobby, you do not go as far as saying the fathers should be barred from their children because of it. I would like to point out that throughout well over 100 reputable surveys carried out throughout the English speaking countries runs the theme that women commit just as much DV as men. There are no reputable surveys that say anything different. It has also been shown by the NSPCC that mothers commit 60% of child abuse and real fathers 9% with 31% being carried out by step-fathers live-in boyfriends and the like. Surely as far as DV is concerned it is “in the best interest of the children” to give full custody to the father and not put them with the mother where 91% of child abuse takes place. Why don’t they?
        Secondly, by placing girls with their mothers you expose them to eight time the risk of sexual abuse from step-fathers, live in boyfriends and the like. Why do judges do this if they are committed to “in the best interest of the children”?
        Thirdly, the main responsibilities a parent has for their children are to feed, clothe, and shelter them, for example it does not matter how much education they get if they starve and it does not matter how much “mothering” they get if they freeze to death.
        Good point and one I’ve made myself many a time. Fathers tend to be the breadwinners in families. They usually work and earn more than mothers do. That means it’s the sweat of their brows that puts food on the table, a roof over the children’s heads, clothes on their back, sends them to school, etc. These are all necessities of life without which all the readings of Good Night Moon in the world would amount to nothing. And for doing this hard work to provide the things without which children literally couldn’t survive, fathers are called uncaring about their children and kicked out of their lives, again by judges without the first idea about what truly serves children’s interests.

      • anjaeriud
        May 02, 2014 @ 22:58:16

        Might take me a bit of time to reply to this comment Alan – my internet conncection is playing silly buggers.

        Anne

  2. Alan Bowker
    May 02, 2014 @ 17:46:58

    Anja, connected is the issue of child SEX abuse. This is my focus in UK/Scotland. Here is a link that I’ve posted directly upon Police Scotland’s website and have been fighting for almost 3 years. This is the very reason I’m interested in mens rights. Post this link (or not) as you see fit.
    It gives some insight on both child abuse and how the criminal justice system is turning a blind eye.
    I intend to expose that any and every way I can.
    Sometimes the link is only available during daytime hours.

    Reply

    • anjaeriud
      May 02, 2014 @ 18:18:47

      Hi Alan

      I absolutely agree with you re the issue of “child sex abuse” – in fact I would go so far as to say that underlying this toxic paradigm that feminism peddles about mothers being the “better parent” is a darker more malign agenda than even most people realise.

      This insistence by some women of “holding onto” the children and excising fathers from those children’s lives has, in my opinion, a darker and as I said, more malign reasons than we have examined uptil now.

      I have absoloutely no problem posting the link Alan – glad to – will address your second comment shortly – I am reading it and taking my time pondering it.

      Anne

      Reply

  3. anjaeriud
    May 02, 2014 @ 22:20:04

    This is my 100th post – right now I should have all four (4) of the essays in this series ready – but – the last few weeks have been a bit difficult.

    But – as everyone knows – shit happens – sometimes really horrible shit – anyhoo – moving on.

    There are four substantive issues in Ireland – the issue I’ve just outlined above – and will expand on in the next article, including the legal perspective.

    The issue of domestic abuse and violence in Ireland.

    Parental Alienation and not only its affects on alienated parents, but on the children in greater detail and a possible legal remedy that takes a different approach – am a bit behind with my research on that one.

    The last issue is health and social funding in Ireland and how it is and has been siphoned off and chanelled towards “womens issues”

    These are complex but inter- related problems, such as homelessness, drug and alcohol abuse, literacy, social exclusion of boys in particular which sets a chain of events in motion that manifests itself and contributes to all of the above – this article will be a collabarative piece from myself and two colleagues – one with experience in “Young Offenders” issues and one with experience Human Rights Advocacy – with a particular speciality in mental health issues from a legal perspective.

    All these articles will also be posted on the Men’s Rights Ireland site as well – starting from next week.

    By way of explanation of why I have not been visible on MRI – first my apologies but as I said above – shit happened – there is also an issue – with the venue for the event in Maynooth – apparently the feminist society “had a meeting” am sure you can guess what about – I will be working over the next week to “resolve this issue”

    It never rains but it pours 🙂

    Reply

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